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	<title>Comments on: VOS vs. TÚ</title>
	<atom:link href="http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/vos-vs-tu-right-or-wrong-coming-soon/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/vos-vs-tu-right-or-wrong-coming-soon/</link>
	<description>A SNEAK LOOK AT BUENOS AIRES SOCIETY FROM AN INSIDER'S POINT OF VIEW.</description>
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		<title>By: sofiabohmer</title>
		<link>http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/vos-vs-tu-right-or-wrong-coming-soon/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>sofiabohmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-38</guid>
		<description>I have never heard that use here in BA but I agree: It must be the same phenomenon. 
I have just realized that we didn´t discuss the cause of the ending &quot;-astes&quot; in here.

What I suggested to explain that use is that there is a trend among certain groups of speakers to regularize language forms.
For example:
If the second person singular, present, indicative of verbs ends in &quot;-as, -es&quot; &gt;&gt; Quieres, Piensas, etc... then speakers extend that rule to other tenses like preterite. For example: quisiste &gt;&gt; quisistes.

The same happens with &quot;alguien/nadien&quot; (as presented by Jordan)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have never heard that use here in BA but I agree: It must be the same phenomenon.<br />
I have just realized that we didn´t discuss the cause of the ending &#8220;-astes&#8221; in here.</p>
<p>What I suggested to explain that use is that there is a trend among certain groups of speakers to regularize language forms.<br />
For example:<br />
If the second person singular, present, indicative of verbs ends in &#8220;-as, -es&#8221; &gt;&gt; Quieres, Piensas, etc&#8230; then speakers extend that rule to other tenses like preterite. For example: quisiste &gt;&gt; quisistes.</p>
<p>The same happens with &#8220;alguien/nadien&#8221; (as presented by Jordan)</p>
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		<title>By: Señor Jordan</title>
		<link>http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/vos-vs-tu-right-or-wrong-coming-soon/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Señor Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-37</guid>
		<description>I would equate the confusion of &#039;-as&#039; &amp; &#039;-astes&#039; to alguien &amp; nadie.   

Many hispanics I have met over the years who have immigrated to the US to work in factories think that you say &#039;nadien&#039; instead of &#039;nadie&#039; because if &#039;alguien&#039; ends with an &#039;n&#039;, why wouldn&#039;t the opposite?

The reasoning makes sense similar to with the present and preterit indicative.  Descriptively, the communication occurred, the symbol was conveyed adequately to the hearer.  But prescriptively, it&#039;s incorrect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would equate the confusion of &#8216;-as&#8217; &amp; &#8216;-astes&#8217; to alguien &amp; nadie.   </p>
<p>Many hispanics I have met over the years who have immigrated to the US to work in factories think that you say &#8216;nadien&#8217; instead of &#8216;nadie&#8217; because if &#8216;alguien&#8217; ends with an &#8216;n&#8217;, why wouldn&#8217;t the opposite?</p>
<p>The reasoning makes sense similar to with the present and preterit indicative.  Descriptively, the communication occurred, the symbol was conveyed adequately to the hearer.  But prescriptively, it&#8217;s incorrect.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sofiabohmer</title>
		<link>http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/vos-vs-tu-right-or-wrong-coming-soon/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>sofiabohmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Thanks, both of you for your comments. 

The same phenomenon happens in Buenos Aires. 
It is true that this occurrence does not appear in learning books, neither are they taught as correct in school. True that it is attributed to people with no formal education. 
However, language is a complex entity. It is not only a linguistic phenomenon but also a social one: it´s a membership mark used by the members of a certain group to show they belong to it.  
As I see it, analyzing it in terms of native Spanish/learned Spanish or correct/incorrect would be to remain on the surface of the problem while -unconsciously- stigmatizing not a linguistic form, but the linguistic community who speaks it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, both of you for your comments. </p>
<p>The same phenomenon happens in Buenos Aires.<br />
It is true that this occurrence does not appear in learning books, neither are they taught as correct in school. True that it is attributed to people with no formal education.<br />
However, language is a complex entity. It is not only a linguistic phenomenon but also a social one: it´s a membership mark used by the members of a certain group to show they belong to it.<br />
As I see it, analyzing it in terms of native Spanish/learned Spanish or correct/incorrect would be to remain on the surface of the problem while -unconsciously- stigmatizing not a linguistic form, but the linguistic community who speaks it.</p>
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		<title>By: JuJu</title>
		<link>http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/vos-vs-tu-right-or-wrong-coming-soon/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>JuJu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-34</guid>
		<description>But I don&#039;t see it with higher/formally educated people, I meant to add. I think it&#039;s a native Spanish vs. learned Spanish thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I don&#8217;t see it with higher/formally educated people, I meant to add. I think it&#8217;s a native Spanish vs. learned Spanish thing.</p>
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		<title>By: JuJu</title>
		<link>http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/vos-vs-tu-right-or-wrong-coming-soon/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>JuJu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-33</guid>
		<description>Native speakers almost always add the s in the pret. indic. I&#039;ve noticed that with every speaker I&#039;ve talked to from Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Mexico, El Salvador, and Honduras. I&#039;m sure most people do it, it makes sense since the present indic. there is always an S at the end of that form compras --&gt; comprastes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Native speakers almost always add the s in the pret. indic. I&#8217;ve noticed that with every speaker I&#8217;ve talked to from Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Mexico, El Salvador, and Honduras. I&#8217;m sure most people do it, it makes sense since the present indic. there is always an S at the end of that form compras &#8211;&gt; comprastes.</p>
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		<title>By: srjordan</title>
		<link>http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/vos-vs-tu-right-or-wrong-coming-soon/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>srjordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sofiabohmer.wordpress.com/?p=70#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Me gusta el resumen.  I&#039;ve noticed sometimes  (and this might just be more ignorance than grammatical correctness/incorrectness) that people will also (whether the tuteo or voseo) in the preterite indicative will add an &#039;s&#039; which sounds more like the vosotros.    
Ex: ¿Comprastes la camisa?
Do you notice that much where you are?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me gusta el resumen.  I&#8217;ve noticed sometimes  (and this might just be more ignorance than grammatical correctness/incorrectness) that people will also (whether the tuteo or voseo) in the preterite indicative will add an &#8217;s&#8217; which sounds more like the vosotros.<br />
Ex: ¿Comprastes la camisa?<br />
Do you notice that much where you are?</p>
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