How troubled is the fact of choosing between “tú” and “vos”?
I consider that dilemma to be much more insignificant than it is generally thought:
Firstly, because there are formal differences in only two tenses: Indicative present and imperative mood -also in subjunctive present but is less usual-; and lastly, because no matter which form you choose, it does not represent an problem understanding or being understood by other Spanish speakers from other countries.
Which are these differences?
Indicative present:
- No irregularities, stress on the last sylable, change of the ending of -ir verbs.
JUG-AR QUER-ER SENT- IR
tú > jueg - as quier - es sient - es
vos > jug – ás quer - és sent - ís
Imperative mood:
- No irregularities, stress on the last sylable, change in the ending of -ir verbs.
JUG-AR QUER-ER SENT- IR VEN – IR
tú > jueg - a quier - e sient - e ven
vos > jug – á quer - é sent - í ven – í
So, if you consider the whole scene, it is not a big deal at all.
Whom would I suggest to learn one form and whom, the other one?
Well, I would encourage people on vacation to learn or use ”tú” conjugation, specially the ones who have already learnt it and who are staying here for little time and/or only for tourism; whereas, I would totally recommend “vos” forms to the following people:
- Tango lovers (Tango would not exist without “vos” and viceversa).
- The ones who move BA to study or work.
- People who want to connect with locals.
- Or simply too lazy students (”vos” is much more regular than “tú”).
Is one form more correct than the other one? (I will go into it in depth later)
Me gusta el resumen. I’ve noticed sometimes (and this might just be more ignorance than grammatical correctness/incorrectness) that people will also (whether the tuteo or voseo) in the preterite indicative will add an ’s’ which sounds more like the vosotros.
Ex: ¿Comprastes la camisa?
Do you notice that much where you are?
Native speakers almost always add the s in the pret. indic. I’ve noticed that with every speaker I’ve talked to from Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Mexico, El Salvador, and Honduras. I’m sure most people do it, it makes sense since the present indic. there is always an S at the end of that form compras –> comprastes.
But I don’t see it with higher/formally educated people, I meant to add. I think it’s a native Spanish vs. learned Spanish thing.
Thanks, both of you for your comments.
The same phenomenon happens in Buenos Aires.
It is true that this occurrence does not appear in learning books, neither are they taught as correct in school. True that it is attributed to people with no formal education.
However, language is a complex entity. It is not only a linguistic phenomenon but also a social one: it´s a membership mark used by the members of a certain group to show they belong to it.
As I see it, analyzing it in terms of native Spanish/learned Spanish or correct/incorrect would be to remain on the surface of the problem while -unconsciously- stigmatizing not a linguistic form, but the linguistic community who speaks it.
I would equate the confusion of ‘-as’ & ‘-astes’ to alguien & nadie.
Many hispanics I have met over the years who have immigrated to the US to work in factories think that you say ‘nadien’ instead of ‘nadie’ because if ‘alguien’ ends with an ‘n’, why wouldn’t the opposite?
The reasoning makes sense similar to with the present and preterit indicative. Descriptively, the communication occurred, the symbol was conveyed adequately to the hearer. But prescriptively, it’s incorrect.
I have never heard that use here in BA but I agree: It must be the same phenomenon.
I have just realized that we didn´t discuss the cause of the ending “-astes” in here.
What I suggested to explain that use is that there is a trend among certain groups of speakers to regularize language forms.
For example:
If the second person singular, present, indicative of verbs ends in “-as, -es” >> Quieres, Piensas, etc… then speakers extend that rule to other tenses like preterite. For example: quisiste >> quisistes.
The same happens with “alguien/nadien” (as presented by Jordan)